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鈥淗aving decided to build it, we should get on and build it.鈥�

National Infrastructure Commission chairman Sir John Armitt is talking about the HS2 railway. A natural diplomat, the angst the government has got itself into over the project, the latter stages of which are now facing a two-year delay, is testing even his patience.

鈥淭he cheapest way is to build it as quickly as possible,鈥� he adds. He thinks the suggestion that the first phase could be delivered over a longer period of time is folly. It will just cost more. 鈥淭he more you spin it out, the more you鈥檝e got future inflation. It creates more uncertainty.鈥�

He says while infrastructure might like politics to stay out of it, politics can鈥檛 stay out of infrastructure. Everyone wants to have their say.

It would seem more interventions are likely in the coming years as the country begins to wake up to the scale of the infrastructure challenges facing the UK 鈥� from improving transport networks and getting rid of gas boilers to making sure the infrastructure we do have now and the bits we don鈥檛 yet have will be able to stand up to climate change.

Armitt agrees that we have a habit in this country of making things difficult but adds this is largely self-inflicted. How, then, to make things better?

His solution, for the infrastructure and planning stream of the 好色先生TV the Future Commission, is this: take a decision and stick with it. Crack on, basically. Too much time, he says, is wasted by reviews of projects that have already been deemed necessary.

The one infrastructure scheme that vexes people like no other right now is HS2. It has faced various threads of opposition that can to be summed up as follows:

鈥淚t鈥檚 a waste of money, it costs too much, it鈥檒l only benefit London, the money should have been spent in the North first, why can鈥檛 we build anything on time, look at how late Crossrail was, look at how much more Crossrail cost.鈥�

We tend to look back with rose-tinted spectacles at big infrastructure projects and forget that Brunel used to drive his shareholders mad

Why, to cap it all, even a lot of environmentalists seem to be opposed to it. Aren鈥檛 railways supposed to better than roads?

It popped up in the crosshairs again in January with claims, reported on the front page of The Sun, that the HS2 station at Euston could be pulled in order to save the project money. The claim was quickly shot down by chancellor Jeremy Hunt 鈥� a move which pleased Armitt 鈥� but HS2 remains under the microscope and will do so until it gets built. In fact, no sooner had Hunt headed off one piece of speculation, then claims that the project would be subject to more reviews surfaced.

Earlier this month, the scheme鈥檚 chief executive Mark Thurston, told the BBC 鈥渨e鈥檙e looking at the timing of the project, the phasing of the project, we鈥檙e looking at where we can use our supply chain to secure a lot of those things that are costing us more through inflation鈥� although he admitted delays did not 鈥渢ypically鈥� save money in the long run.

And then, yesterday, transport secretary Mark Harper said the Birmingham to Crewe leg of HS2 will be delayed by two years to cut costs. Work on Euston will also be affected with Harper saying: 鈥淲e remain committed to delivering HS2 services to Euston, and will address affordability pressures to ensure the overall spending profile is manageable. We will therefore take the time to ensure we have an affordable and deliverable station design.鈥�

Costs on the first phase of the scheme are running at around 拢70bn with some estimates suggesting they have topped 拢100bn.

Speaking before Harper鈥檚 announcement, Armitt, who started out as a site engineer at John Laing in 1966, has seen this all before. 鈥淲e tend to look back with rose-tinted spectacles at big infrastructure projects and forget that Brunel used to drive his shareholders mad because his jobs were nearly always late and cost a lot more than he told them,鈥� he says.

鈥淢ajor infrastructure projects costing more and taking longer is not a new phenomenon, partly because of the sheer scale of them and, particularly with civil engineering, people don鈥檛 want to spend the money at the front end on understanding what all the challenges and ground conditions they鈥檙e going to face as they go along will be.鈥�

He adds: 鈥淭he big challenge in today鈥檚 world is all the very, very clever stuff that goes in the last six months of the project and you鈥檝e got to commission it all. The integration of all those sophisticated systems and getting them joined up takes longer than people expect.鈥�

We can鈥檛 just drive a cart and horses through local concerns. There is no infrastructure without politics

Armitt, who by the time he left Laing in 1993 was chair of its international business and head of its civil engineering arm, says there are other factors at work too.

鈥淚n countries which are democracies we can鈥檛 just drive a cart and horses through local concerns. There is no infrastructure without politics. There is more representation and articulation of concerns at a local level now but, equally, it potentially makes it more difficult to proceed with some of those projects.鈥�

And he says the UK spends too long talking about schemes, rather than building them. 鈥淧eople were talking about Crossrail for many more years than they actually spent building it. If you go back to my days at Laing, we used to say a bypass would take 12 to 14 years 鈥� 10 of which is in the planning and the rest of which is in the construction.鈥�

A long-time supporter of HS2 鈥� he was in charge of the upgrade of the West Coast Main Line when he was running Network Rail. He says: 鈥淵ou cannot just continue to patch up a Victorian railway. You鈥檝e got to occasionally be prepared to build new. The most reliable railway is HS1 because it鈥檚 new.鈥�

He says the government should hold its nerve and press on. 

The first phase is around 40% complete and work to dig the route鈥檚 longest tunnel, 10 miles under the Chilterns, has now passed the halfway mark.

Armitt, who is due to visit the Colne Valley viaduct site in the next few weeks, has no truck, either, with some suggestions that work should just stop. 鈥淭he viaduct is almost built, some of the tunnels are virtually built. It鈥檚 crazy to say 鈥榣et鈥檚 drop all that鈥�.

HS2 has the opportunity to make an enormous contribution to transport in this country and we should now just get on and do it as effectively, efficiently and quickly as we possibly can

鈥淎re you going to go out and take the viaduct down, create mayhem while you do that? You鈥檝e bought properties which now you鈥檙e not going to need. It鈥檚 irreversible in my mind.

鈥淭hey鈥檝e made a decision, the guys building it are under constant pressure to keep costs under control. HS2 has the opportunity to make an enormous contribution to transport in this country and we should now just get on and do it as effectively, efficiently and quickly as we possibly can.鈥�

The NIC he chairs was set up by a former Conservative chancellor, George Osborne, with a remit to provide expert advice to the government on infrastructure challenges facing the UK.

Its first chairman was the former Labour transport secretary Andrew Adonis, with Armitt succeeding him in 2018 after Adonis left at the end of the previous year citing concerns about Brexit.

Armitt says the commission was essentially set up to do for wider infrastructure what the Olympic Delivery Authority, which he chaired for seven years, had done for the 2012 games. 鈥淭he concept was about why can鈥檛 we have the consistency of approach and determination to succeed on general infrastructure that we had with the Olympics.鈥�

My magic wand would mean a far more strategic, consistent approach where we didn鈥檛 have so much stroking of the beard and reconsideration of projects

But he says it has not always been like that. 鈥淭here has to be an understanding of what we need to do, creating policy, followed by a delivery plan which delivers that and doesn鈥檛 get changed every time there鈥檚 a new secretary of state or doesn鈥檛 get held up for a year while the secretary of state reviews the decisions made by the last secretary of state.鈥�

To make things better, he says this: 鈥淢y magic wand would mean a far more strategic, consistent approach where we didn鈥檛 have so much stroking of the beard and reconsideration of projects, which had already been seen as vital and necessary.

鈥淭hen you get greater certainty for investors and of delivery processes for consultants, designers, architects and contractors to build up the resources they need and be confident about creating the training for the skills they need to be able to do that.

鈥淎s long as you are living from hand to mouth and you鈥檙e not too sure what鈥檚 going to be in a programme in three to four years, it鈥檚 difficult for firms 鈥� particularly construction companies, who do operate on thin margins 鈥� to actually be able to commit to training. The more certainty you get, it creates opportunities for innovation.鈥�

While HS2 might grab the more immediate headlines, Armitt says some of the biggest upcoming issues revolve around energy.

This autumn the NIC publishes its second National Infrastructure Assessment, a once every five years report that will outline a strategic vision for the next 30 years and set out recommendations for how identified needs should be met.

So much of what we need to do is being addressed by our desire to address the issue of climate change

The issues, Armitt says, that will be looked at later this year include urban and inter-urban transport, the decarbonisation of electricity and climate resilience 鈥� in other words, making sure that the country鈥檚 infrastructure can cope with climate change.

鈥淲e鈥檙e in a much better position in understanding what we need to do,鈥� he adds. 鈥淪o much of what we need to do is being addressed by our desire to address the issue of climate change.鈥�

He says that, in two decades鈥� time, there will be more offshore wind farms. 鈥淸The war in] Ukraine has made us realise a number of things about our reliance on imported gas. We need to get off gas. The UK is very fortunate with our windy shores, there is a big opportunity to maximise the opportunity to find alternative sources of energy.鈥�

He predicts that offshore wind farms will be in deeper waters where the wind is more consistent; and with an increase in offshore wind, the UK will need a more sophisticated distribution network for electricity.

鈥淲e will be driving electric cars, we will be both a seller and buyer of electricity 鈥� when we鈥檙e not driving our electric cars we will have the opportunity to put that electricity sitting in those batteries back in the grid, and smart systems will enable us to do that. We will quite likely have batteries in our garages for some of the electricity we鈥檙e using in our homes.鈥�

>> Also read: The 好色先生TV the Future Commission

>> Introducing the infrastructure and planning stream

Armitt reckons the biggest challenge is the decarbonisation of homes. 鈥淚f we鈥檙e not going to be using gas, what are we going to be using instead?鈥� He says there are three options: heat pumps, district heating networks and hydrogen 鈥� but critics have said there are too many technical difficulties to overcome to make hydrogen a viable and economic low-carbon heating fuel.

He thinks the government will have to start putting pressure on boiler manufacturers to come up with alternatives. 鈥淭he government made a judgment when it said 鈥榳e will not have the sale of new petrol or diesel cars after 2030鈥�. The next step is to say there will be no gas boilers on the market.

Investors will go where they see the easiest opportunities. We鈥檝e got to stand up as the UK and make this an attractive place as possible

鈥淭hen that tells the manufacturers, 鈥極K, we鈥檝e got XYZ years 鈥� what am I going to put in its place?鈥� It will ramp up the production of heat pumps and help create a training school for guys who can go out and install these things.

鈥淭here is a massive programme which we have to meet, but this is also a great opportunity for jobs across the whole country, not just in London. This will happen everywhere from Nether Wallop to Manchester.鈥�

He says the government needs to make the UK as attractive as the US and Europe for investors to plough money into nuclear schemes. 鈥淚nvestors will go where they see the easiest opportunities at the end of the day. We鈥檝e got to stand up as the UK and make this an attractive place as possible to these guys.鈥�

Most of this can be expected to be given a wider and thorough airing this autumn. For now, Armitt has signed up as chairman of the NIC until the beginning of 2025, by which time he will be nudging 79. 鈥淲hy am I still doing it? I love it. It keeps the old grey matter going. I鈥檓 learning every day.鈥�